Also, is there any place that officially explains "hate".
I get the idea that dealing lots of damage makes monsters want to hurt you or if you heal a crapload of allies, but is that it?
What happens if say a Rngr deals massive dmg from behind a Whm to a monster fighting a tank? Will the monster simply walk away from the tank it's fighting, prance around the Whm and then proceed to pummel the poor Rngr?
Final Fantasy XI play thread
As far as servers it seems like most of the importers (and beta testers?)played on the Ragnarok server, so I'd guess there's a pretty decent English speaking base there already.
But with the NA release there should be a decent number of English speakers on all servers. Just something to keep in mind if they don't start any servers just for NA peeps I guess.
As far as me communicating with Japanese people my reading/writing is fairly poor compared to listening comprehension. If only one person types to me in Japanese at a time and gave me a minute or so to read it then maybe that would work. In any case most Japanese people are decently good with written English, they just suck majorly at speaking it.
Yes, my 5 semesters of Japanese were useful...somehow.
But with the NA release there should be a decent number of English speakers on all servers. Just something to keep in mind if they don't start any servers just for NA peeps I guess.
As far as me communicating with Japanese people my reading/writing is fairly poor compared to listening comprehension. If only one person types to me in Japanese at a time and gave me a minute or so to read it then maybe that would work. In any case most Japanese people are decently good with written English, they just suck majorly at speaking it.
Yes, my 5 semesters of Japanese were useful...somehow.
mmorpg newb
aggro - whoever has the monster's attention. increased when you do damage to enemy. (hitting for 1000 dmg = 1000 aggro pts) enemy targets character with highest aggro. some games also increase aggro rating per point of dmg you heal party members. (ie - a group heal on 5 member party for 300 pts = 1500 aggro pts) not sure what FFXI does.
taunt - increases aggro, usually dealing little damage. (sucessful taunt = 1000 aggro pts)
tanks are meant to taunt to keep aggro, and do as much dmg as possible while dmg dealers are meant to do dmg. while the rest buff/debuff, heal
this is all from my AC2 exp, but i assume it applies.
aggro - whoever has the monster's attention. increased when you do damage to enemy. (hitting for 1000 dmg = 1000 aggro pts) enemy targets character with highest aggro. some games also increase aggro rating per point of dmg you heal party members. (ie - a group heal on 5 member party for 300 pts = 1500 aggro pts) not sure what FFXI does.
taunt - increases aggro, usually dealing little damage. (sucessful taunt = 1000 aggro pts)
tanks are meant to taunt to keep aggro, and do as much dmg as possible while dmg dealers are meant to do dmg. while the rest buff/debuff, heal
this is all from my AC2 exp, but i assume it applies.
Last edited by Dave on Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
"Hate" is also called "aggro", which is basically a list of players that monsters have that have done stuff to either hurt it or help the people hurting it. Everytime you do one of the above things, you rise in its hate list. The monster attacks the person at the top of the list.VLSmooth wrote:Also, is there any place that officially explains "hate".
I get the idea that dealing lots of damage makes monsters want to hurt you or if you heal a crapload of allies, but is that it?
What happens if say a Rngr deals massive dmg from behind a Whm to a monster fighting a tank? Will the monster simply walk away from the tank it's fighting, prance around the Whm and then proceed to pummel the poor Rngr?
So yes, if the ranger is hiding behind a WhM and outdamages both the tank and the healing of the WhM, the monster will make a beeline for the ranger.
This emphasizes the importance of a good defensive tank. This kind of tank will have a "taunt", which is basically an attack that disproportionally adds aggro to the tank, so the monster sticks to the tank and doesn't go after healers and mages and light tanks/damage dealers.
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VLSmooth
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Ah, so it's not a new concept (probably explaining why I couldn't find documentation about it in FF XI faqs). It makes sense, it's just I'd like a little more info about mechanics (more numbers!) to be sure, lest I make myself a target when MNK isn't my main.
btw, clicking new post for this thread sends me to the 2nd page. Does anyone else have this problem?
Another tidbit, anyone know if a MNK can still counter if it evades an attack? If so, this would be great for my Mithra MNK, otherwise, counter and evade will be at odds.
btw, clicking new post for this thread sends me to the 2nd page. Does anyone else have this problem?
Another tidbit, anyone know if a MNK can still counter if it evades an attack? If so, this would be great for my Mithra MNK, otherwise, counter and evade will be at odds.
Group Dynamics
For people who've never played a MMORPG before.
I think something like this was posted on the old board, but since that's gone here's a quick summary.
In a party-based MMORPG, there's generally a couple types of groups that will succeed more than others. A tank-heavy group, a CC (crowd control) group, or a PBAoE (Player Based Area of Effect) group. In DAOC there were also "focus" groups, which basically utilized a pet with a damage shield, which is a spell that inflicts damage to an enemy in proportion to the damage the enemy inflicts to the pet.
Tank-heavy group
In a tank heavy group, the main tank selects a target, and the other party members attack it. Any adds (additional enemies) are "pulled" by the secondary (and tertiary) tanks. Everyone else whomps on the first enemy until it dies. The main tank selects a new target and everyone attacks that one. This kind of group usually needs a main healer and backup healer, since there will be multiple tanks, and in case a monster goes after the main healer, since there's no CC (not sure if there's really any CC in FF XI though).
CC group
Not sure this applies to FF XI. In this kind of group, the tank pulls a monster and then the CCer mez, stun, root, etc. all additional enemies. The group targets one enemy at a time. Usually only need one healer for this kind of group, but additional ones are nice.
PBAoE group
Not sure whether this applies to FF XI either. In this type of group, the tank pulls the mobs and then lets them all stay on him (or alternatively, if there's other tanks the each pull one and then stand on top of the main tank). The PBAoE'er then stacks on all the monsters and unleashes a stream of AoE attacks, killing all monsters at once. These are usually the best groups, as long as everyone knows what to do.
For people who've never played a MMORPG before.
I think something like this was posted on the old board, but since that's gone here's a quick summary.
In a party-based MMORPG, there's generally a couple types of groups that will succeed more than others. A tank-heavy group, a CC (crowd control) group, or a PBAoE (Player Based Area of Effect) group. In DAOC there were also "focus" groups, which basically utilized a pet with a damage shield, which is a spell that inflicts damage to an enemy in proportion to the damage the enemy inflicts to the pet.
Tank-heavy group
In a tank heavy group, the main tank selects a target, and the other party members attack it. Any adds (additional enemies) are "pulled" by the secondary (and tertiary) tanks. Everyone else whomps on the first enemy until it dies. The main tank selects a new target and everyone attacks that one. This kind of group usually needs a main healer and backup healer, since there will be multiple tanks, and in case a monster goes after the main healer, since there's no CC (not sure if there's really any CC in FF XI though).
CC group
Not sure this applies to FF XI. In this kind of group, the tank pulls a monster and then the CCer mez, stun, root, etc. all additional enemies. The group targets one enemy at a time. Usually only need one healer for this kind of group, but additional ones are nice.
PBAoE group
Not sure whether this applies to FF XI either. In this type of group, the tank pulls the mobs and then lets them all stay on him (or alternatively, if there's other tanks the each pull one and then stand on top of the main tank). The PBAoE'er then stacks on all the monsters and unleashes a stream of AoE attacks, killing all monsters at once. These are usually the best groups, as long as everyone knows what to do.
Last edited by Alan on Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In MMORPGs, everyone "gets" to experience "medding" (meditating, or resting). In order to keep everyone from breezing through the levels (and I guess to give natural break periods so people don't die from holding it in) you'll have to rest after battle to regain health/mana.
In FFXI, as in other MMORPGs, there are spells that increase the rate of mana regeneration. These spells are commonly known as "crack". All casters, especially healers, love crack. It reduces downtime and increases the amount of exp/hour you can get. There are also health regen spells, but these aren't as important because you can have healers heal everyone. Bards have songs that increase health and mana regen, which is a common trend for musical classes in MMORPGs.
It seems like in FFXI you can increase MP with fruit too. Don't know too much about that though.
Basically the limiting factor in how quickly you level is downtime. That's why pet classes usually level the fastest.
In FFXI, as in other MMORPGs, there are spells that increase the rate of mana regeneration. These spells are commonly known as "crack". All casters, especially healers, love crack. It reduces downtime and increases the amount of exp/hour you can get. There are also health regen spells, but these aren't as important because you can have healers heal everyone. Bards have songs that increase health and mana regen, which is a common trend for musical classes in MMORPGs.
It seems like in FFXI you can increase MP with fruit too. Don't know too much about that though.
Basically the limiting factor in how quickly you level is downtime. That's why pet classes usually level the fastest.
I don't think most games publish exact aggro numbers the way AC2 seems to. DAOC didn't, and I don't think EQ did either.VLSmooth wrote:It makes sense, it's just I'd like a little more info about mechanics (more numbers!) to be sure, lest I make myself a target when MNK isn't my main.
It's just something you get a feel for after playing for a while. You'll learn to recognize when you've temporarily gained aggro and when you're fucked.
In any case you probably won't be counting damage as you're playing anyway.
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Jonathan
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SB didn't, either. FF has G- spells, which stands for Group. So there's Poison and Group Poison. I have no idea if G- Fire is powerful enough to kill a whole set of mobs at once or not. I have no idea what kind of BAF code FF has. I don't know if they have spawns or camps. I do know they have zones. I do know there is sleep and paralysis effects.
When you're a caster and you get aggro, you run like a bitch while everyone else whomps or taunts and draws the hate off you. This is a part of being a caster; if you do enough damage/healing to contribute to the success of the party, you get hate. The secret to a good party is to manage hate in a timely fashion. Ideally you want your casters to get hate and then your tanks to pull it right back off.
I've seen speculation about counter and evade, but nothing I really believe.
Paul, give us a World Pass!
When you're a caster and you get aggro, you run like a bitch while everyone else whomps or taunts and draws the hate off you. This is a part of being a caster; if you do enough damage/healing to contribute to the success of the party, you get hate. The secret to a good party is to manage hate in a timely fashion. Ideally you want your casters to get hate and then your tanks to pull it right back off.
I've seen speculation about counter and evade, but nothing I really believe.
Paul, give us a World Pass!
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Jonathan
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I also don't have a good feeling for how combat works out, but I do know some things. I know that it has target-and-circle mechanics like Zelda, which is interesting. I know that being behind the monster is necessary for a Thief sneak attack to work. I know that you have to specifically choose to disengage and then flee.
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Jonathan
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I'm going to the stupid auto mechanic tomorrow, so I will see if I can pick the game up at a Target or Gamestop or something. I would get it from Amazon, but I want to be able to return it easily. Dammit. I will not play until this weekend, though. I will not.
No, a better plan is to wait until this weekend. Definitely the right plan.
No, a better plan is to wait until this weekend. Definitely the right plan.
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Jonathan
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Well, I get sent to the 5th page.VLSmooth wrote:btw, clicking new post for this thread sends me to the 2nd page. Does anyone else have this problem?
(It happens when there's new posts while you're still logged in. It gets confused between the first new post when you last logged in and the new posts since you last read the thread.)
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VLSmooth
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The Thief FAQ at gamefaqs has some nice detail about this. I especially like the two tank, two thief scenario, where each pair is 180 degrees off the enemy. Thanks to trick attack, the tanks don't even have to provoke (theorectically) and the monster will waste a significant amount of time changing targets.Dwindlehop wrote:I know that being behind the monster is necessary for a Thief sneak attack to work. I know that you have to specifically choose to disengage and then flee.
I'm also interested in the macro capabilities for timing (need to get wait durations correct).