next gen consoles

Post by **Jonathan** » Tue May 17, 2005 7:46 pm

I just realized that both Sony and Microsoft are quoting CPU+GPU numbers when they list the 2 and 1 teraflops numbers (respectively). For Sony, the breakdown is:

--Total CPU floating point performance: 218 gigaflops
--1.8 TFLOPS GPU floating point Performance

The percentages should be even more skewed in favor of the GPU for Microsoft.

PC graphics cards don't normally quote flops because it's sort of a nonsense statistic for video, but some googling shows that ATI's X800 line sports between 150-200 gigaflops, including all fpus. However, that just goes to show the silliness of the stat, because only about 54 gigaflops of those are usable for actual, say matrix multiplies, and you only get about 10 in practice with memory bandwidth constraints.

http://www.graphicshardware.org/previou ... halian.ppt

It does go to show two things: marketing will add any two numbers together if the sum is greater than some sexy number; the next gen consoles will have very parallel graphics pipelines. Presumably we'll see the same in PC graphics in the same time frame.

quantus · Post by **quantus** » Tue May 17, 2005 11:35 pm

I'm just waiting 'til there are as many pipelines as pixels and my whole screen gets rendered in one pass...

Post by **Jonathan** » Tue May 17, 2005 11:41 pm

Never gonna happen. Once we have enough transistors to do an array of 1600x1200 pixel pipelines, graphics will involve doing raytracing for every individual photon. in multiple passes. natch.

Jason · Post by **Jason** » Wed May 18, 2005 12:38 am

See the only question I'm considering right now is which one should I get? I'm thinking of getting a PSP and then the PS3 would make sense, but I would need the 360 so that I could still play all my old xbox games. Decisions, decisions.

Maybe I should get both.

Post by **Jonathan** » Wed May 18, 2005 12:44 am

Correction. You get the 360 to play some old XBox games. Microsoft has said there will be backwards compatibility for some games. As they are achieving backwards compatibility through emulation and not the Sony tactic of tacking on previous-generation hardware, the 360 will only support certain XBox titles.

quantus · Post by **quantus** » Wed May 18, 2005 1:09 am

so if I got a PS3, like $50 of that is going to a PS2 anyway? yeesh. I hope they're at least adding some upsampling hardware...

Post by **Jonathan** » Wed May 18, 2005 1:33 am

well, certainly that's the way they did ps1 compatibility on the ps2. given the nature of cell, i'm pretty sure that's the way they're doing ps2 compatibility on the ps3. they are using their ps1/2 game library as a selling point. i do know that much.

Peijen · Post by **Peijen** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:05 pm

So anyone getting xbox 360? I think I am going to pass on getting any of the new console until we figured out which new DVD format is going to win. Although the new xbox is pretty slick.

Post by **Jonathan** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:52 pm

My prediction is that they'll have a DVD format war and no one will care. By the time the mass market is ready to purchase HD content, they'll get it as bits over a channel, not as media.

No console for me.

Post by **Jonathan** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:12 pm

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/backwar ... eslist.htm

More than 200 titles right now.

Note: A software emulator is required for each original Xbox game you play on your Xbox 360™ console.

You need the hard drive SKU to play original Xbox games. Naturally all the Halo games are on the list. Basically you either download the emulator or have them ship it to you, for each game.

Peijen · Post by **Peijen** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:19 pm

That's pretty lousy, they couldn't have a generic emulator for all the games?

quantus · Post by **quantus** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:07 am

Xbox.com: How is your backward compatibility solution going to work?

Todd: As you’ve heard from us before, backward compatibility on Xbox 360 is done through software. Now that we’ve solved the technical challenge and the emulator is working, we’re certifying each original Xbox title by hand to run on Xbox 360.

What I’m really proud to tell you and your readers is that it’s easy to get the emulation software, and it’s free. We’ll give gamers a choice—you can get the latest software updates from Xbox Live, burn a CD from xbox.com or sign up on Xbox.com for a CD that can be delivered to your home at a nominal shipping and handling fee. Once you get the CD, put it in your Xbox 360 and you’re ready to go.

Looks to me like one emulator... They're just updating the emulator over time to capture more and more crazy things that game developers did to make their games work.

I wonder if they'll re-QA the emulator for all the games with each update they make... I think it'd be funny if they have certain versions of the emulator that work with different segments of the game. It'd be back to standard MS operating procedure - screw everyone because they can't write scalable software.

quantus · Post by **quantus** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:08 am

Xbox.com: Will there be any benefits to playing original Xbox games on my Xbox 360 console?

Todd: Absolutely. One of the great things about gaming on Xbox 360 is the satisfaction of knowing that every game will be playable in high definition. We are now proud to reveal that this extends to the original Xbox games as well. Every original Xbox game will be upscaled to 720p and 1080i, and will take advantage of Xbox 360’s anti-aliasing capabilities, delivering a picture that is clearer and crisper than anything available on Xbox.

Sony better be upsampling their older games on the PS3... If not, I think the XBox360 will be the better deal.

Jason · Post by **Jason** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:46 am

Peijen wrote:So anyone getting xbox 360? I think I am going to pass on getting any of the new console until we figured out which new DVD format is going to win. Although the new xbox is pretty slick.

they said they're never going to release a game on an hd dvd, so i don't see why you would wait for a format to win.

Peijen · Post by **Peijen** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:20 pm

Jason wrote:
Peijen wrote:So anyone getting xbox 360? I think I am going to pass on getting any of the new console until we figured out which new DVD format is going to win. Although the new xbox is pretty slick.
they said they're never going to release a game on an hd dvd, so i don't see why you would wait for a format to win.

To use it as dvd player?

quantus · Post by **quantus** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:26 pm

MS is losing ~$125 per console. That means they need to sell like 4 or 5 additional games to break even. Nothing new in the console market, but still interesting to keep track of...

http://games.slashdot.org/games/05/11/2 ... ml?tid=211

And the Xbox 360 seems to continue in the general MS trend of things that crash.

http://games.slashdot.org/games/05/11/2 ... 211&tid=10

Peijen · Post by **Peijen** » Tue May 09, 2006 6:35 pm

PS3 @ $500 / $600, that's as much as a cheap computer!