So I think my computer's dying

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:07 pm

It occasionally reboots for no reason. This is after I've reformatted. So it's some hardware issue that I have no motivation to find out more about.

So what do you think? I was planning on buying a new laptop but I may need a new desktop instead. On the plus side I'd be spending like half as much money. On the minus side, I can't carry around a desktop.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:12 pm

I confess, I trained a small hamster to randomly push the reset switch from the inside.

get a dell!

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:20 pm

Dude!

Post by **Jonathan** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:20 pm

I think you're right.

So are you asking what we think about laptop vs. desktop? Here's what I think:

1. Playing games on a CRT monitor is better than an LCD. Flexible resolutions, much better vertical refresh, and absolutely no ghosting make the CRT a better choice. However, you already have a monitor and you can just plug your laptop into that monitor.
2. 3D hardware for laptops is often cheesey. There's not much selection and I don't think there's much of an aftermarket upgrade path.
3. The real desknote/portability/desktop replacement market segment weighs 8 pounds and usually comes with a 15" screen. Go to Best Buy or Fry's or something and check 'em out. These suckers are huge.
4. You pay a premium for battery life. It's generally worth it, but as you get more mobility, you get farther away from that sub-$1000 price point that desktops have.
5. The laptop may take up less room in your apartment, but only if you chuck your monitor. Then #1 will apply.
6. Why do you want to carry around your computer? Is it for computing on the go, or could you be more cost-effectively served with VNC and a cluster computer?

I wrote something a week ago about making this decision. I'll fix it up purty and post it.

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:24 pm

Hmm, after reflection I'd probably be better served with a desktop. I only want an ultra-thin laptop, not a performance one, but I probably don't actually need to carry around a computer on campus.

It's more for after I graduate from CMU that I'd need a laptop and probably ditch the desktop, but I guess I can cross that bridge when I get to it.

So, now that that's out of the way, what should I get? I'm completely out of the loop as far as computer technology is concerned. And prices. Don't know what a good price for a desktop is anymore. I don't necessarily need top of the line.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:34 pm

plus unless u get the uber heavy portable desktop cpus, equivalent speed laptop cpus are noticibly slower than their desktop equivalents. Something to do with "speed-step" or something that sounds nice, but really just underclocks your cpu to use less power, but doesnt kick up the speed until you've told it to for about 5 minutes.

as for computers, ive heard the best "value" is a 2.4-8 P4 with HT 800Mhz bus 400mhz ddr and the same old 8MB cache drives. plus u really need a 19"! get a dell! u know u want to!

Peijen · Post by **Peijen** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:39 pm

desktop + pda

Post by **Jonathan** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:47 pm

Dave wrote:plus unless u get the uber heavy portable desktop cpus, equivalent speed laptop cpus are noticibly slower than their desktop equivalents. Something to do with "speed-step" or something that sounds nice, but really just underclocks your cpu to use less power, but doesnt kick up the speed until you've told it to for about 5 minutes.

as for computers, ive heard the best "value" is a 2.4-8 P4 with HT 800Mhz bus 400mhz ddr and the same old 8MB cache drives. plus u really need a 19"! get a dell! u know u want to!

Mobile CPUs only use SpeedStep when on battery power. On AC power, they run at full speed all the time. 5 minutes is a bit long as an estimate for the time to recover from a throttling event, but it's controlled by the OS. You should be able to configure it. However, you don't want to do anything resource-intensive except play a DVD while on battery power, anyway. Trust me, JK2 is hard to play with a nipple.

See my Articles thread on hardware for my ideas about what you should buy.

Price-wise, I'd say an excellent system can be had for $1000 without monitor. For $800 without monitor, you can still get a system that is the envy of your peers. You can get a system for $199 without monitor, if that's the sort of thing you want.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:53 pm

I got my home Dell system for $1k which was a decent deal back then.

2.53, 1GB 333ddr, 40gb, 19" trinitron upgraded to WinXP Pro and stuffs but it still works! wahhh!

My office mate is looking to buy a Dell atm too and fro what he's configured, he can get a

2.8 HT 512(400) 40 XPro 18" LCD for around 1350 after rebates or something

Post by **Jonathan** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:58 pm

Keep in mind that the CRT monitor size != LCD monitor size, too. The equivalent measurement is CRT viewable and LCD size.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:00 pm

also, check to see how much upgrading ram through dell costs compared to buying from crucial or soemthing. they use the same quality ram anyways.

Post by **Jonathan** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:05 pm

in the long term, memory will always be cheaper later. if you have four slots in your motherboard and get two sticks, then that leaves you room to buy two more sticks later and get the most for your money.

in the short term, memory is a cyclic market.

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:31 pm

So, playing around on Dell.com I got this:

2.4 ghz w/ 533 front side bus
1 gb dual chan 333 mhz ddr
40 gb 7200 rpm
40x cd
free dvd burner
128 mb Radeon 9800
integrated sound card
no monitor
standard everything else

For $989 after a mail in rebate.

How much of a difference will 533 instead of 800 mhz bus make? I'll see how much a comparable system would cost on newegg or something later maybe.

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:34 pm

Oh yeah, and free shipping.

Post by **Jonathan** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:43 pm

Alan wrote:So, playing around on Dell.com I got this:

2.4 ghz w/ 533 front side bus
1 gb dual chan 333 mhz ddr
40 gb 7200 rpm
40x cd
free dvd burner
128 mb Radeon 9800
integrated sound card
no monitor
standard everything else

For $989 after a mail in rebate.

How much of a difference will 533 instead of 800 mhz bus make? I'll see how much a comparable system would cost on newegg or something later maybe.

About a bin in CPU. So 5% depending on the workload.

My thoughts:
2.4 ghz w/ 533 front side bus like i said, translate this down a bin compared to 800 FSB when making price comparisons
1 gb dual chan 333 mhz ddr not much of a price difference between 333 and 400
40 gb 7200 rpm quite small, really.
40x cd
free dvd burner now that's nice. what standards does it support? most new drives are + and - RW, and often CD-RW too, but this free thing makes me suspicious. it probably only supports one standard, which is why they're unloading it.
128 mb Radeon 9800 that's a honking big video card.
integrated sound card good
no monitor good
standard everything else

bob · Post by **bob** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:54 pm

I saw this bitch recently on one of the home shopping channels selling a computer. She was talking about how great it was, and she opened up lots of Internet Explorer windows. "30, 31, 32. Thirty-two web browsers open at once! Look at that!". And then she was talking about the hardware, and she actually said "and it has a front-side bus, to make your applications run faster".

You should get one of those computers, Alan. With a front-side bus. And maybe some dynamic memory while you're at it.

Post by **Jonathan** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:58 pm

bob wrote:I saw this bitch recently on one of the home shopping channels selling a computer. She was talking about how great it was, and she opened up lots of Internet Explorer windows. "30, 31, 32. Thirty-two web browsers open at once! Look at that!". And then she was talking about the hardware, and she actually said "and it has a front-side bus, to make your applications run faster".

You should get one of those computers, Alan. With a front-side bus. And maybe some dynamic memory while you're at it.

this reminds me of the fry's salespeople. we went there so amber could pick up and type on laptops because we're getting her one this fall. the salespeople kept trying to help us and i kept telling them no. except i did finally let one help us because i wanted him to fetch me a tape measure, which he did. then i ignored him.

bob · Post by **bob** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:01 pm

Dwindlehop wrote:this reminds me of the fry's salespeople. we went there so amber could pick up and type on laptops because we're getting her one this fall. the salespeople kept trying to help us and i kept telling them no. except i did finally let one help us because i wanted him to fetch me a tape measure, which he did. then i ignored him.

Ha! That sounds like an excellent way to use him! There was a slashdot article the other day about Fry's selling linux boxes, except the salespeople didn't know what a Linnicks was, so they would say that it ran more like a 233 MHz machine, or some other bullshit they made up to convince people to go with Windows, and the boxes were eventually selling for $100. And somebody posted that he saw these boxes for sale at his local Fry's, and they actually had a sign saying that the computers came with Linux pre-installed, but Fry's would install Windows on them for you for an additional fee.

Post by **Jonathan** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:15 pm

So how much was the 9800 option? I assume it's a non-pro, because you have not listed it as such, and the PRO version costs $350. Be careful you're not getting stuck with the 9800SE. This has had its pixel pipelines chopped in half and is not worth the $250 price tag.

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:16 pm

Yeah I can save about $100 by going with a GeForce4 instead.

It doesn't say PRO or SE, so I'll just assume it's SE.