Artifact

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Re: Artifact

Postby Alan » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:28 pm

Seems like Ball Lightning on a Guard-equipped black hero (especially if you can Hip Fire afterward) could be pretty strong.
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Re: Artifact

Postby Jonathan » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:10 am

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Re: Artifact

Postby Jonathan » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:54 am

How the fuck does Luna's Eclipse charging work?
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Re: Artifact

Postby Alan » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:11 am

Luna adds a charge before each action phase. The way her passive is worded is vague and makes it seem like her Lucent Beam needs to hit an enemy to add a charge, but they are two independent effects. If you blink her to the right it means she will gain two charges to her Eclipse that round even if there are no enemies in the lane. I think she will gain a charge even if you upkeep kill her.

I recorded a game using Windows Game Mode recording. Definitely worth doing; I won the game but saw several misplays.
Last edited by Alan on Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:17 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Artifact

Postby Alan » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:15 am



Can you do enough tower damage after using the Guard?
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Re: Artifact

Postby Alan » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:19 am

Redmist.gg has a new stat tracking Chrome extension. Kind of reminds me of Hotslogs.

Mine
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Re: Artifact

Postby Jonathan » Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:57 am

Har, I have 52 hours of game time and over 100 hours in the client. I'm just here to make decks, yo.

https://redmist.gg/users/76561197975853938/matches
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Re: Artifact

Postby Jonathan » Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:10 am

Alan wrote:


Can you do enough tower damage after using the Guard?

Wrong question! Guard is usable literally every turn. If you have initiative and (crucially) already took another tower, all the blinks and TP scrolls in the world won't help the other guy. I had a guy buy 3 blinks with ToT and be completely unable to defend my Guard lane because he had no initiative cards in hand. I didn't even get lucky with arrows. I got the bad lineup and then played Coup on the hero Guard missed. He deployed a hero from fountain and I still controlled initiative, so he had no gas the next turn either. By the time blinks were available downstream, I killed the tower (which was left, natch).

The right question is whether I can do enough tower damage before I buy Guard. Guard can give you enough rope to hang yourself if you are trying to take two towers simultaneously.

The basic gameplan appears to be aggro one downstream tower by aggressively abandoning a lane or two plus Sorla on the turn, and then control the second tower. Coup and Guard give me control tools to do that over several turns; I just have to beat the other guy's clock. I actually wouldn't hate a ToT Axe to give me more options; something like Eclipse seems fraught because I need to aggro the first tower.

The gameplan feels good with Guard because the enemy can ToT or go wide or whatever, but if I think I want that tower I can still take it with control tools. I have to even out my draws and put a little more aggro in. I think maybe Murder Plot gives me aggro reach but still lets me Relentless/Ball out later, as compared to Oath. I definitely need to be able to make the first tower more consistent. I have not felt bad about the second tower.
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Re: Artifact

Postby Jonathan » Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:13 am

Alan wrote:Luna adds a charge before each action phase.

On all Eclipses in your deck, or just Eclipses in your hand?
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Re: Artifact

Postby Alan » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:41 am

Jonathan wrote:
Alan wrote:Luna adds a charge before each action phase.

On all Eclipses in your deck, or just Eclipses in your hand?


It charges up to 3 Eclipses, whether in your hand or in your deck. If you have two Lunas (in draft) then it's random which 3 it affects. If you have just one Luna, it affects all of your Eclipses. If you have Ogre Magi and multicast Eclipse, it creates a "base copy" which means it starts with 1 charge. I imagine if a future card has an effect like, "add 3 copies of target card to your deck" then Lucent Beam will charge a random 3 of the Eclipses you have in your hand and deck.
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Re: Artifact

Postby Jonathan » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:17 am

Oh, huh. That's... not explained by the card text.
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Re: Artifact

Postby Alan » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:16 am

Jonathan wrote:
Alan wrote:
Jonathan wrote:Like this, maybe?

https://www.playartifact.com/d/ADCJXMQJ ... 1pZHJhbmdl


Can you do enough tower damage after using the Guard?

Wrong question! Guard is usable literally every turn. If you have initiative and (crucially) already took another tower, all the blinks and TP scrolls in the world won't help the other guy. I had a guy buy 3 blinks with ToT and be completely unable to defend my Guard lane because he had no initiative cards in hand. I didn't even get lucky with arrows. I got the bad lineup and then played Coup on the hero Guard missed. He deployed a hero from fountain and I still controlled initiative, so he had no gas the next turn either. By the time blinks were available downstream, I killed the tower (which was left, natch).

The right question is whether I can do enough tower damage before I buy Guard. Guard can give you enough rope to hang yourself if you are trying to take two towers simultaneously.

The basic gameplan appears to be aggro one downstream tower by aggressively abandoning a lane or two plus Sorla on the turn, and then control the second tower. Coup and Guard give me control tools to do that over several turns; I just have to beat the other guy's clock. I actually wouldn't hate a ToT Axe to give me more options; something like Eclipse seems fraught because I need to aggro the first tower.

The gameplan feels good with Guard because the enemy can ToT or go wide or whatever, but if I think I want that tower I can still take it with control tools. I have to even out my draws and put a little more aggro in. I think maybe Murder Plot gives me aggro reach but still lets me Relentless/Ball out later, as compared to Oath. I definitely need to be able to make the first tower more consistent. I have not felt bad about the second tower.



That makes sense. Oath might not hurt you that much since you can still control Oathed lanes with Guard. I agree that Murder Plot might be ok. How good has Sister been for you? Seems like a steep mana cost for one creep in this deck. And how useful has Lich been for you? Chain Frost can be pretty sick but I feel like playing him impedes your ability to take early towers. Tinker can help you gain control of lanes, or Winter Wyvern could help you get early tower damage.
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Re: Artifact

Postby Alan » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:24 am

Winter's Curse is usually not very good though, and it being such a high cost card very likely hurts your curve too much to justify playing him.
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Re: Artifact

Postby Alan » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:48 am

Won for the first time with my BU deck against a Vesture deck that runs blue (BU Econ in this case). Reviewing the replay confirmed my feeling while playing the game that the reasons I won were 1) a string of pretty bad misplays by my opponent, including consistently terrible lane deployments and not playing around an upkeep kill on his only hero in the right lane on the final turn that allowed me to take down his Ancient, and 2) the fact that he never drew Annihilation. Also, UB Econ is almost certainly stronger than BU. BU doesn't have enough card draw and cycle.

I'm debating taking Luna back out for Ogre Magi. I'm not sure if Eclipse is impactful frequently enough. It has helped me close out games but I wish I had replays of those games to figure out if those were games I would've won without Eclipse anyway.

If I put Ogre back in I probably have to take out the Conflags, which I am a little reluctant to do.

Like this

Not sure if I like this better than the Luna version w/ Conflag though. I have found Conflag very impactful in combination with March against everything except ToT and Vesture decks. Against monored and R/G if it gets to a point where my opponent plays ToT my window to win probably closed anyway so it doesn't really matter.

I'm also debating adding a couple cards to the deck I'm currently playing to lower my curve. I'm intrigued by Lodestone Demolition as a one-of after the WePlay tournament, and either a single copy of either Arcane Assault or Compel to add another cycle card that can give me some utility as well.

42 card version

In reality though I'm not really lowering my curve, because the only situation I'd ever play Lodestone is against a bunch of ToT heroes in the lategame. It's probably the case that even against ToT decks, in the vast majority of situations I would rather draw almost any other card in my deck that helps my overall gameplan of winning before ToT comes out than it is to hope for Lodestone at the right time. And Arcane Assault doesn't make sense to play on curve. 2 copies of Compel would probably make more sense than adding the two of those cards.
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Re: Artifact

Postby Jonathan » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:41 am

Went on a perfect run with my latest Nyctasha's list!
I did ditch Sister as you noted. I put the Murder Plot in, and I put Artillery in. I feel the lack of Gank. It might be proper to put 1x Gank in, maybe cut 1x Relentless.

I could experiment with Tinker. I do value Lich for his ability and initiative rather than his board clear. Frankly, I pretty consistently run out of cards taking the first tower and getting Guard. Initiative is really what makes this work.

My only loss I ran out of cards and hadn't dealt enough tower damage.

I nearly lost to this guy's Fight Through The Pain, but he didn't have the nuts, just some good value.
https://www.playartifact.com/d/ADCJUoAJ ... siAUoEcgGB
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Re: Artifact

Postby Jonathan » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:28 am

Alan wrote:If I put Ogre back in I probably have to take out the Conflags, which I am a little reluctant to do.


Ignite and Conflag seem synergistic to me. I agree you don't have the ratio to run both as 3x, but surely you could run 1-2 Conflags with Ogre?

Yeah, neither Lodestone nor Arcane Assault is played on curve. Conflag it!
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Re: Artifact

Postby Jonathan » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:33 am

Alan wrote:And how useful has Lich been for you? Chain Frost can be pretty sick but I feel like playing him impedes your ability to take early towers. Tinker can help you gain control of lanes, or Winter Wyvern could help you get early tower damage.

If I took Lich out, who would I flop?
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Re: Artifact

Postby Alan » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:01 am

Replays!

vs Mono red: On mana turn 7 Sorla should have gone left to Coup Tidehunter. I completely forgot about Ravage and was only thinking about playing around Berserker's Call or Primal Roar.

vs BU econ: There were several turns where I was consciously not playing around Annihilation, because I figured if he had Annihilation I would lose. But I still had several misplays; just not as many as my opponent. Mana turn 8 should have bought Phase Boots first. Blinking Tinker right may or may not have been correct. I gave up a ton of damage left but in exchange made taking the right Ancient a real possibility. I maybe should have waited to see what he was going to play first. Eclipse mid may have also been wrong, but the way I was looking at is was that even if it didn't kill Tinker it would help make the lane more manageable.

vs Mono green: EZ game. I shouldn't have played Conflag on turn 5 at the end though. It wasn't going to kill any creeps, and gave up initiative when I had Coup as the winning play. He gave initiative right back though so I got away with it. If he'd kept initiative he may have been able to stall (like if he had Defensive Bloom), then have 2 heroes to deploy (plus I have no idea what items he had in hand).
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Re: Artifact

Postby Alan » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:51 pm

Jonathan wrote:Went on a perfect run with my latest Nyctasha's list!
I did ditch Sister as you noted. I put the Murder Plot in, and I put Artillery in. I feel the lack of Gank. It might be proper to put 1x Gank in, maybe cut 1x Relentless.

I could experiment with Tinker. I do value Lich for his ability and initiative rather than his board clear. Frankly, I pretty consistently run out of cards taking the first tower and getting Guard. Initiative is really what makes this work.

My only loss I ran out of cards and hadn't dealt enough tower damage.

I nearly lost to this guy's Fight Through The Pain, but he didn't have the nuts, just some good value.
https://www.playartifact.com/d/ADCJUoAJ ... siAUoEcgGB


In that case I think Lich probably does stay in. If you took Lich out I think you'd have to flop Sorla. Flopping Sorla isn't ideal but it's also not the worst.

Gank seems like it would be very impactful. I agree that at least 1x, maybe even 2x if you can find one more cut.
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Re: Artifact

Postby Alan » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:55 pm

Jonathan wrote:
Alan wrote:If I put Ogre back in I probably have to take out the Conflags, which I am a little reluctant to do.


Ignite and Conflag seem synergistic to me. I agree you don't have the ratio to run both as 3x, but surely you could run 1-2 Conflags with Ogre?

Yeah, neither Lodestone nor Arcane Assault is played on curve. Conflag it!


I guess I could try a version with Conflag. Basically take out Luna, put in Ogre, otherwise deck unchanged. It would be easier for me to get and stay ahead, but harder for me to come back if I fall behind.
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