Fucking up in Iraq

Posts you want to find years later go here.

Postby skanks » Sun May 16, 2004 3:20 pm

Seymour M. Hersh of the New Yorker continues his investigation of the Abu Gharaib prison scandal. This week he lays out the case that prison torture and abuse were promoted under secret programs within the Pentagon to which Rumsfeld in particular was a signatory and which president Bush was informed.

"The solution, endorsed by Rumsfeld and carried out by Stephen Cambone, was to get tough with those Iraqis in the Army prison system who were suspected of being insurgents. A key player was Major Genera Geoffrey Miller, the commander of thr detention and interrogation center at Guantánamo, who had been summoned to Baghdad in late August to review prison interrogation procedures. The internal Army report on the abuse charges, written by Major General Antonio Taguba in February, revealed that Miller urged that the commanders in Baghdad change policy and place military intelligence in charge of the prison. The report quoted Miller as recommending that “detention operations must act as an enabler for interrogation.
http://newyorker.com/fact/content/?040524fa_fact
skanks
Poser
 
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 5:16 am

Postby quantus » Mon May 17, 2004 8:03 pm

Pentagon: Hersh report 'journalist malpractice'

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/17/iraq.abuse.main/

Maybe just politcal smoke...
Have you clicked today? Check status, then: People, Jobs or Roads
User avatar
quantus
Tenth Dan Procrastinator
 
Posts: 4648
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 2:09 am
Location: San Jose, CA

Postby skanks » Mon May 17, 2004 9:58 pm

I am aware of the derision the pentagon has thrust towards Hersh's article. At this point I think that Hersh, a pulitzer prize winning journalist who uncovered the My Lai massacre, has far more credibility than the Bush administration's lackeys. The Pentagon's characterization of Hersh as "one of history's great conspiracy theorists" is an outrageous charge -- a product of a bureacracy in full-spin mode. Furthermore, The New Yorker isn't some slouch publication, either.

If this starts a Senate inquiry we might get some truth on the matter.
skanks
Poser
 
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 5:16 am

Postby quantus » Tue May 18, 2004 5:38 pm

http://news.google.com/url?ntc=0M2B0&q=http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml%253Fi%3D20040531%26s%3Dvest2

An article to support Hersh's reputation as a thorough journalist as well as mentioning other journalists saying similar things.

Anyone else hear about how the beheading might be faked?
Have you clicked today? Check status, then: People, Jobs or Roads
User avatar
quantus
Tenth Dan Procrastinator
 
Posts: 4648
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 2:09 am
Location: San Jose, CA

Postby Jonathan » Tue May 18, 2004 6:10 pm

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/5/15/22827/0477

Here's the link I've got about Nick Berg. I haven't the inclination to read it, myself.
Jonathan
Grand Pooh-Bah
 
Posts: 6014
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Postby Alan » Thu May 20, 2004 4:00 am

An article that Vinny sent me. Amusing, though with a heavy "hawk"/anti-media slant:

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/games/wargames.html
Image
Alan
Veteran Doodler
 
Posts: 2538
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 1:32 am
Location: Where I am

Postby skanks » Thu May 20, 2004 6:29 pm

Good to see everything is going according to plans...

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/20/inter ... AL.html?hp

Step 23: Discard previous hand-picked Iraqi leader as ineffectual and full of shit. After he seeks to undermine US efforts to establish a government in retaliation and ensure his ascendency, raid his house.
skanks
Poser
 
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 5:16 am

Postby Peijen » Thu May 20, 2004 7:33 pm

skanks wrote:Good to see everything is going according to plans...

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/20/inter ... AL.html?hp

Step 23: Discard previous hand-picked Iraqi leader as ineffectual and full of shit. After he seeks to undermine US efforts to establish a government in retaliation and ensure his ascendency, raid his house.


I fully approve this move, now if we can just do the same with other "Leader" we will be set.
Peijen
Minion to the Exalted Pooh-Bah
 
Posts: 2778
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 1:28 pm
Location: Irvine, CA

Postby Jonathan » Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:34 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040606/ap_on_bi_ge/iraq_cheap_gas_4

Gas for Iraqis is subsidized by the US.

This is not going to turn out well.
Jonathan
Grand Pooh-Bah
 
Posts: 6014
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Postby skanks » Tue Jun 08, 2004 9:37 pm

The premise of article 1 dovetailes conveniently into Ashcroft's claims in article 2.

1) Lawyers Decided Bans on Torture Didn't Bind Bush

WASHINGTON, June 7 — A team of administration lawyers concluded in a March 2003 legal memorandum that President Bush was not bound by either an international treaty prohibiting torture or by a federal antitorture law because he had the authority as commander in chief to approve any technique needed to protect the nation's security.


2) Bush Didn't Order Any Breach of Torture Laws, Ashcroft Says

WASHINGTON, June 8 — Attorney General John Ashcroft, whose subordinates have written confidential legal memorandums seemingly approving of torture, told a Senate committee today that President Bush had "made no order that would require or direct the violation" of either the international treaties or domestic laws prohibiting torture.
skanks
Poser
 
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 5:16 am

Postby Jonathan » Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:46 pm

The Vietnam adventure was cursed because the South Vietnamese government it sought to preserve was corrupt and unpopular. It didn't matter that the North Vietnamese were Communist despots if enough people in Vietnam perceived them to be nationalists taking on the imperialist U.S. Similarly, in Iraq, it won't matter that the insurgents are actually murderous Baathist thugs or suicidal Islamic fanatics if enough Iraqis think that they're nationalists taking on the imperialist U.S.

Yay for America losing. Oh, wait.
Jonathan
Grand Pooh-Bah
 
Posts: 6014
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Postby Jonathan » Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:54 pm

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.07/view.html?pg=4?tw=wn_tophead_8

You already know that military contractors make up the second largest force in Iraq after the U.S. This opinion piece attempts to address some of the outcomes of that fact.
Jonathan
Grand Pooh-Bah
 
Posts: 6014
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Bush loves fucking-up. Can't stop the fuck-ups.

Postby skanks » Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:27 am

Seymour Hersh, I have mentioned before, is a columnist at the The New Yorker who writes "The Annals of National Defense" and the Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who broke the story of the My Lai massacre and, more recently, the Abu Ghraib prison torture. He is well-connected and highly regarded.

Mr. Hersh made the following remarks at an ACLU event last week:

"Debating about it, ummm ... Some of the worst things that happened you don't know about, okay? Videos, um, there are women there. Some of you may have read that they were passing letters out, communications out to their men. This is at Abu Ghraib ... The women were passing messages out saying 'Please come and kill me, because of what's happened' and basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys, children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. And the worst above all of that is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror. It's going to come out."
skanks
Poser
 
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 5:16 am

Postby skanks » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:33 am

so starting last Thursday with Kerry's Iraq speech (a good read for the so inclined) Kerry has become increasingly aggressive.

I think its a good move. In the short-term Bush is going to be given his opportunity to restate his talking points (Kerry is a flipflopper, Saddamn was a murderous bastard). But since Kerry's talking points about Iraq are very different from Bush's talking points about Iraq, the conflict will create some dissonance in the mind of the voters. To resolve this dissonance, voters might get interested in the Facts. And the Fact is that Iraq is a fucking mess and it aint getting any better between now and November. So Kerry goes aggressive, he gets more attention from the media, he solicits more scorn from Fox commentators (but that was coming anyways) and then he defines the turf for himself for once and voters get to know him better. And voters might even like the fact that Kerry's telling them the truth. Meanwhile, Bush politically needs to pretend that all is well in Baghdad no matter how much of a wreak that is even if voters become convinced otherwise. And if that happens, (ie if voters believe Iraq is going bad and Bush keeps claiming great) then Bush is going to seem remarkably out-of-touch and insincere. And if that happens, Bush is going to lose.

What Kerry needs to do is to stick with his message. Keep saying it again and again from now until November. When he gets a chance, he needs to address those opposing talking points (flipflopper, etc) directly, clearly, and briefly, again sticking with his message.

If he sticks to his message and performs at the presidential debates, then he's got a very good chance.
skanks
Poser
 
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 5:16 am

Postby Jonathan » Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:40 pm

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/lorentz1.html

"Why We Cannot Win" by Al Lorentz.

Interesting read. I see no one acknowledging this on the national level, though.
Jonathan
Grand Pooh-Bah
 
Posts: 6014
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Postby skanks » Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:11 am

Does Gary Brecher remind anyone else of George?

Anyway, War Nerd's got a victory plan for Iraq. I think it might just work.

http://www.exile.ru/2004-November-13/war_nerd.html
skanks
Poser
 
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 5:16 am

Postby Dave » Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:44 pm

Powell vs Clinton 2008!
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
User avatar
Dave
Tenth Dan Procrastinator
 
Posts: 3339
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 2:40 pm

Postby George » Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:51 pm

Powell might not be bad, since it sounds like he opposed most of Bush's foreign policy screwups.

The Republicans are more likely to put up another radically right wing lunatic like Frist, Delay, or god-forbid Ashcroft. The scariest part is that Ashcroft's victory would be a given.

Of course, against Hillary, even Nixon would have a good shot, were he still alive and eligable to run for a third term. As it is, I think Hillary has a slight advantage.
I feel like I just beat a kitten to death... with a bag of puppies.
User avatar
George
Veteran Doodler
 
Posts: 1267
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:26 pm
Location: Arlington, VA

Postby Jonathan » Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:10 pm

Zombie Nixon vs. Clinton 2008!

Zombie Nixon's slogan is, "Hey, at least I'm not Hillary!"
Jonathan
Grand Pooh-Bah
 
Posts: 6014
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Postby Jonathan » Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:12 pm

Jonathan
Grand Pooh-Bah
 
Posts: 6014
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Portland, OR

PreviousNext

Return to The Vault

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron